Posts by Disillusioned JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Another correction: Where I said "afterlife versus on afterlife" I meant to say "afterlife versus no afterlife".

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Correction to my prior post to Jeffro: I made a major typo where I hurriedly wrote "ESP is the same as supernatural." I meant to instead say "ESP is not the same as supernatural." In my view if ESP exists it is something natural not something supernatural.

Update: Something can be paranormal yet not supernatural. The words paranormal and supernatural are not identical in meaning, though many people think they have the same meaning.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

waton, in reply to your comment of "DJW, yes, for example I expect to be in upstate NY on April8 2024, at 3 pm, together with the shadow of the Moon, but do you believe that all that already exists?" I say the following. I think it is very possible that such exists, though such an idea is a strange one.

Based upon the idea, last night I did two experiments in which I tried to call to mind what I know (in the sense of present self learning what my future self knows what is happening at his time) will happen in the immediate future. I tried call to mind ('remember'/'member'?) my future observations in the same way I call to mind (remember) my past observations. To my astonishment I very soon experienced both events happening, though certain particulars were reversed. I was stunned. Experiences like those outcomes of my two experiments, as well as some other experiences, make me think that I might have some latent ESP ability.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Jeffro I state the following to you.

Nearly all of the Bible commentaries I have are ones I obtained while I was still a JW (though after I began greatly questioning WT teachings on the Bible. I refer to commentaries on the Bible to discover the meaning that the writers of the Bible meant to convey in what they wrote in the Bible. I want to know what the Bible's intended meaning is for each verse I am studying. After I discern that meaning I then ask myself if the Bible writers are correct in what they said, and at that stage I then investigate what atheistic scholars and nonreligious scientists and secular historians say on those topics. I don't look for flaws in a book before I learn what the book is trying to convey. If I mentally attack a book by looking for flaws in the book before understanding the book, I will likely in many cases be attacking a straw man idea of the book. Erecting a straw man argument to attack and idea is a logical fallacy and I wish to avoid making logical fallacies. I also refer to commentaries on the Bible verses because Bible commentaries are all about explaining Bible verses mean. Granted Bible commentaries are primarily written by people who believe in the Bible to at least some degree, and the vast majority of the commentaries I find are Christian ones (and most of those are Protestant ones, while some are ecumenical ones). It would be helpful if some atheistic scholars who write about Bible topics were to do so in the form of a commentary on the Bible so that people could more easily find the information. At least Isaac Asimov wrote a commentary on the Bible, but in it he says very little about the Seleucid period. His commentary doesn't cover the book of Daniel (or any biblical book) on a verse by verse basis for the entire book. Regarding the book of Daniel Asimov only comments on a small number of verses.

You wrote the following "nor to keep repeating information that has been posted on here for years. I have already linked to information about the book of Daniel in this thread". My reply to that is that I have not seen such information here. I didn't become very active on this until about two years ago, or so. As a result I know very little of what was written on this site prior to then. When I use the search engine feature of this site I notice it is of very little help to me. It is very hard for me find relevant posts on this site to what I am specifically looking for.

I did see your link about Christian tradition regarding the 70 weeks, but I didn't see (or at least I don't recall seeing) a link by you to information about the Seleucid period in regards to the book of Daniel. If I had seen such, I wouldn't have made the comments asking for you to document your assertions about the Seleucid period. Yes I know I can dig around the internet to see what atheistic scholars say about interpretations of the book of Daniel. But I was asking you to back up your claims because you (at least in my perception) kept urging readers to accept them and I saw very little offered by you in support of your claims. I was not alone in having this perception. scholar stated that he also had that same perception. There is a principle which says that the one making claims in an argument has the responsibility to prove his/her claims; that it not the responsibility of those who disagree with the claims to prove that the one making the claims is wrong.

Since you now saying you are not interested in persuading people to adopt your views, then I will stop asking you to back up the claims you made in this topic thread. I also might dig through all 45 pages of this topic thread so see if somewhere you "already linked to information about the book of Daniel in this thread". I also will probably try to find on the internet detailed documentation and argumentation (discussing the book on a verse by verse basis) in support of the idea that the visions in the book of Daniel pertain primarily to the Seleucid period. However, I think it will be very hard for me find such since atheistic writings are scarce in comparison to Christian writings. On the internet the number of Christian articles about biblical verses is several orders of magnitude greater than atheistic articles commenting on the same verses, thus making it hard to find the atheistic views on those verses.

Regarding your comment of "If you are willing to defer to supernatural ‘explanations’ for the author of Daniel supposedly having access to future events ... " I say the following. I defer to both religious interpretations and nonreligious interpretations. I am open minded as to my sources. I weigh the evidence and arguments presented by both sides. On many topics, including political topics, I weigh both pro and con arguments. For example, I do that regarding the following topics: creationism verses evolution (and evolutionism in general), pro-abortion verses pro-life, political conservative policies verses political liberal policies, supernaturalism versus atheistic naturalism, afterlife versus on afterlife, the idea of reality of no human caused climate change versus the idea of the reality of human caused climate change, ESP exists verse ESP does not exist, etc.

Furthermore, I was not claiming (or even saying it is possible) that the author of Daniel supposedly had access to future events by supernatural means. I was saying that the author of Daniel supposedly might have had access to future events by ESP means. ESP is the same as supernatural. In my view is that if ESP exists it is not something supernatural.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Regarding the idea of the past (namely, past events) still being in existence according to Einstein, see https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/12/28/einstein-believed-in-a-theory-of-spacetime-that-can-help-people-cope-with-loss/?sh=497b970e55d2 . There it says in part the following.

'Einstein did not reject the existence of time. Instead, he rejected the distinction between past, present, and future. This may seem like a minor difference, but it is not.

In this passage Einstein is referring to the “block universe” conception of spacetime. It’s hardly surprising that he accepted it, since although it came from the work of others (principally from Hermann Minkowski, one of Einstein’s teachers) it is the framework in which his own theories of special and general relativity are most naturally expressed.

The block-universe view of physical reality contains time, but in a way remarkably different to our usual conception. It presents a four-dimensional view in which all events across time and space are on an equal ontological footing, with no sense in which present events are judged more “real” or “actual” than past or future ones. It is also very difficult to recover any meaningful sense in which time “flows”.'

'Relativity merges space and time into a single fourth-dimensional structure known as spacetime. We should think of time the same way we think of space; just as all of space exists outside of our world and any point within space can be described by coordinates, all of time exists as well and any events that have happened or will happen already exist, described by their own coordinates within the universe. And the same way all coordinates in space are valid, all coordinates (or events) in time are valid as well, meaning that there should be no such distinctions as “past”, “present,” or “future”. The universe and life within it is not an organic thing that’s constantly changing and morphing. Instead it’s like a video where the present moment is merely a frame within that video. And that video, had we access to it, would reveal every event to ever take place in our universe, from beginning to end. This cosmos is known as the “block universe”, a place where change isn’t real and there’s nothing special about the present moment. Considering this on a philosophical scale brings into question the idea of free will.'

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

scholar, I agree with you than some of Jeffro's posts contain comments which are nick picking - 'splitting hairs'. I notice that multiple times he said the same assertion, in an apparent effort to convince readers of the assertion, yet has provided little reasoning and little evidence in support of his oft repeated assertion.

20

NWT Revisions

by Jeffro in

there is mention on a wikipedia article that there was a 2006 revision of the nwt.

is this true?

what differences are there?

Disillusioned JW

Jeffro, until you said you know, it was not obvious that you know, despite the fact that it was 16 years when you said you didn't know. That is because people don't always find answers to questions, even after 16 years have elapsed. Furthermore, the posts prior to mine (in this topic thread) did not state there were actual differences in the punctuation (the exclusion of single brackets around words) and changes in the wording in part of the Appendix [that also includes a new chart to the NWT]).

20

NWT Revisions

by Jeffro in

there is mention on a wikipedia article that there was a 2006 revision of the nwt.

is this true?

what differences are there?

Disillusioned JW

Simon, though the copyright page of the NWT from the year 2006 says "2006 Printing" instead of saying "Revised 2006", it is a revised edition for it includes the changes in the wording (not simply the packaging, binding, and/or layout) and in illustrations of some maps, as I mentioned. Many readers on this site know that the WT has on many occasions revised the text of some of their publications without saying in the publications that it is Revised. Examples of numerous such revisions have been documented on this site.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

I didn't say I believe in 'psychic'/ESP powers. I don't believe in them. But I am open minded about their possible existence. I thus did not replace belief in the supernatural with belief in 'psychic'/ESP powers. Furthermore, I became open minded about the possibility of 'psychic'/ESP powers more than 10 years before I became an atheistic naturalist. I became open minded about the possibility of 'psychic'/ESP powers while I was still a believing JW, and it was largely as a result of watching documentaries on TV about such. However I think it is unlikely that any 'psychic'/ESP powers exist since their existence has never been scientifically conclusively demonstrated to exist. I have books by Victor Stenger in which he says scientific experiments attempting to demonstrate ESP have failed. But a number of scientists continue to do experiments to see if some form of ESP exists to some degree. Some scientific peer reviewed journal articles have reported positive results of certain types of ESP (including short-term precognition), but other scientists were unable to repeat the results. In some cases flaws were found in the way the experiment was done and/or in the way the data was processed. In regards to whether I want to believe in ESP, I do want to have ESP abilities.

Einstein, as represented in the block theory of the universe, said that the past, present, and future co-exist. If that scientific idea is true, then it seems that it might be possible for people know their future much the same way they remember their past. Furthermore, the scientific idea about the possibility of time travel includes the idea that the past still exists (otherwise how could someone travel to the past?) and the idea that the future always exists (otherwise how could someone travel to the future?).

20

NWT Revisions

by Jeffro in

there is mention on a wikipedia article that there was a 2006 revision of the nwt.

is this true?

what differences are there?

Disillusioned JW

Jeffro, why not? I thought maybe you didn't learn of the explanation that I found. No one else in the topic thread mentioned discovering the evidence which I had discovered about the "2006 Printing" edition of the NWT. To me the change (regarding the removal of the single brackets) was major and to me it was sneaky that the WT 'quietly' made the change.

A number of times I have revived old topic threads.

I found your post because I went to your profile page to see what posts you have made, in order for me to learn more about you, in order tor me understand the perspective you are coming from in some of your posts about the Bible.